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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to episode number 27 of the

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point of convergence podcast

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as always i'm your host exo academian

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over the last several weeks and months

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leading up to a uap

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task force report delivered to congress

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recently

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the chatter about evidence for the

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presence of bona fide ufos

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unidentified flying objects already in

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our midst

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here on planet earth buzzing in and

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around our skies

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has risen to a near fever pitch and

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while some are determined to dismiss

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every one of these sightings no matter

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how well attested by a combination of

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expert witness testimony and

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sophisticated sensor data

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as merely misunderstood examples of

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prosaic phenomena

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there is a growing openness even amongst

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a skeptical slice of mainstream media

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academia and the political set to at

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least consider the possibility that

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these craft are being controlled by a

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genuine form of advanced

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while the pace at which this openness to

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non-conventional explanations

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has grown steadily over the last few

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months and really years

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it's of course still not happening to a

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degree that satisfies

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most of us who are convinced and have

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been for

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years in fact after having studied the

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data closely

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that the ufo phenomenon is real

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nevertheless whether one is a veteran in

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non-terrestrial affairs

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or somewhat new to the entire topic a

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key

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question that inevitably arises is if

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these

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others really are not just out there but

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here

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stationed in and around our planet what

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are their intentions

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what do they intend to do and are their

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ultimate intentions benevolent or

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nefarious

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as has been discussed before on this

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very podcast

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when it comes to our attempt to answer

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that question

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we are not as some strangely seem to

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assume

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working with nothing but our own biases

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and assumptions here

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no in fact there is a very extensive and

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well-supported body of literature that

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now exists

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that speaks to this very question as to

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the intentions

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of these sophisticated non-human

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intelligences

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here i speak of what is often referred

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to as the experiencer literature

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the body of data that represents what

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these apparent others

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have told human beings who've come into

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contact with them

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about their very aims and intentions

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now some will look at this body of data

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much of which is self-corroborating

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and argue that while that's all well and

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good

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how do we know we're not just advancing

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our own hopes and biases

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in the form of a kind of collective

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wishful thinking

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after all some of these people would ask

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what evidence do we have to suggest

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they would regard us as any more

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significant and worthy of

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keeping around than ants if they really

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are as sophisticated

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both in terms of technological prowess

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and advanced intelligence

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as compared to us what's to say they

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would give us the time of day

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any more than we would do to a mound of

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insects making a mess

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of our backyard while these are fair

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questions one certainly worthy of

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addressing considering the clear

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superiority these

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apparent others do demonstrate over us

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there is actually more than just the

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experiencer literature available to us

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that suggests that we can indeed draw

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some tentative conclusions

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as to the purpose and intent of these

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quote-unquote

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aliens these non-human intelligences now

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making our acquaintance

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here i speak of the predictable

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directionality of the evolutionary

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development of sentient species

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what does this predictable

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directionality tell us about the likely

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perspectives

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of these advanced non-human others and

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what assurance do we have

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these notions are not merely

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species-centric prejudices

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projected onto species that are anything

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but human

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these are intriguing and considering our

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current situation

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essential questions for us as a

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civilization to address

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these are the very issues we'll tackle

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head on

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here in the 27th episode of the point of

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's podcast let's

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address this issue of

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the credibility of witnesses because

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skeptics

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regarding the ufo phenomenon will

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frequently bring this up

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they think believers quote unquote

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lean too much on witness testimony so

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what can we say about witness testimony

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and its validity when it comes to trying

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to make decisions about the credibility

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of something as world shattering as the

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ufo phenomenon

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well first off not all witnesses are

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created equal

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we do need to be discerning about who we

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listen to

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we do need to check people's backgrounds

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we do need to look into if they have

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other motivations for coming forward

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jacques villa is a good example of

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someone who does his homework

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he does as much as he can

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preparatorially to find out if the

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witnesses he

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interviews are likely credible

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now one of the ways that valet finds out

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about the potential credibility of a

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potential witness

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is by looking into their background

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interviewing

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their family and friends looking into

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their professional career

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sometimes even looking into their

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financial background to find out again

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if they

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would have some sort of financial

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interest in coming forward

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even though people don't make nearly as

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much money off this kind of thing as

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skeptics sometimes assume but we can

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look into all those things

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because for our own credibility in terms

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of people who want to put this forward

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as something that's valid that needs to

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be studied

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by our scientific community we need to

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do our homework not make assumptions

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do our best job of determining the

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credibility of witnesses we want to put

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forward

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now there's also the matter of strength

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in numbers last week we discussed the

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figure of richard lang

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who is a researcher who has worked for

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airport authorities

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and the department of homeland security

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he admitted that when he first started

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interviewing witnesses

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who had apparently come into contact

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with non-human intelligences

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aliens he was highly skeptical in fact

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he assumed these people were mentally

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unstable

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or were looking for fame or money

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but as he interviewed more and more of

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them he began to realize

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their stories were remarkably similar

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even though they didn't know each other

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sometimes they were even from quite

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different cultural backgrounds

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different class backgrounds across the

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board there were remarkable similarities

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and whenever that happens that's a

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strong indicator

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that something real is happening and

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being reported by these people

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lastly let me just add that contrary to

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the

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opinion of many skeptics many

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experiencers

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do not want to come forward do not want

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to be

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associated with this topic because they

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know

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about the stigma in our culture even

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today

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many people would indeed rather be

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considered mentally ill find out they

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are indeed mentally ill

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than have to confront this idea that

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they've been contacted

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or abducted by aliens sherry wilde is an

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american

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experiencer that we've discussed before

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who went through this very phase

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she actually went to several

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psychologists hoping they would prove

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that she was mentally ill

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so she wouldn't have to confront this

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very notion that aliens were contacting

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her

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so now that we've established who these

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experiencers are

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that actually it's a broad swath of

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people from all across the planet

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with very different backgrounds some who

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had zero interest in this topic

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whatsoever let's now talk about the

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messages they have received

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first off before we go there let's just

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remind ourselves of just

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how many people have been contacted this

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is actually not a rare occurrence

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as i discussed with stuart davis

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yesterday when he interviewed me for the

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aliens and artists podcast very few

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people who have these experiences come

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forward even today now some have put

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forward numbers like one in ten

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i think as the steward that it's much

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less common than that

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i think this is so discombobulating for

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people

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not just because of the stigma and how

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this is going to be received

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but because the experience is so far out

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of our usual expectation of reality

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that many just compartmentalize it never

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deal with it try not to anyway

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so only a few people of the totality are

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actually coming forward let's keep that

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in mind

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but of those that are coming forward

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there is a remarkable consistency

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in the reporting of the messages they

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receive from these

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others

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now before we go through this bullet

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list of the common threads

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shared with human beings by these others

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let me just offer the caveat as i often

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like to do

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that while we refer to this as the ufo

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phenomenon

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because it's convenient it's almost

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certainly phenomena

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involving multiple actors with perhaps

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very different origins

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some may be extraterrestrial some may be

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ultra-terrestrial

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some may be of an origin that we haven't

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even imagined yet

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i think that's quite likely all of the

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above

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and not all of them share the same

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intentions

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motivations agendas let's keep that in

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mind

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nevertheless what the body of data shows

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us and we talked about this when we

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discussed the free

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experiencer study for instance what it

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shows us

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is there is a remarkable consistency in

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00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:28,800
what people are told

295
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:31,600
by many of these highly advanced

296
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:37,509
so let's go through this bullet list of

297
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:39,200
messages that have been shared with

298
00:10:42,470 --> 00:10:40,240
human beings

299
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:42,480
by these others with remarkable

300
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,640
consistency

301
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:46,959
number one people often hear about a

302
00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:49,279
sense of brother and sisterhood

303
00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:52,560
that they see us as family that they

304
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,160
have developed beyond

305
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,399
dualistic notions and they have moved

306
00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:58,320
towards a sense of oneness

307
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:01,600
and they see us as part and parcel with

308
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:02,640
them

309
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:06,000
significant

310
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:10,560
important and in some ways indivisible

311
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:12,560
number two they have a concern about the

312
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,320
particularly perilous stage of

313
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:16,000
development we're currently going

314
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,800
through

315
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,560
specifically since the dawn of the

316
00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:21,120
atomic age

317
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,800
we've talked about this before when we

318
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:24,399
discussed the latest book by

319
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:28,160
jacques valle since the atomic age there

320
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,120
seems to have been an

321
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,440
uptick in their presence here and their

322
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,720
level of intervention

323
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,200
arguably anyway and that would make

324
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:37,360
sense because we have been

325
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,920
at the precipice of self-disaster ever

326
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:41,120
since we detonated

327
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:47,269
they have also shared with consistency

328
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:49,120
that their concern is not just for the

329
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,639
human species

330
00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:52,880
again because they are highly advanced

331
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,560
in terms of consciousness

332
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:56,800
they also have great concerns for the

333
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:58,720
entire biosphere of the planet

334
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:01,440
for animal species and even there has

335
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:02,240
been some

336
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:05,600
sense of the gaia energy the spirit of

337
00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:06,800
the earth itself

338
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:09,920
reaching out across the cosmos to these

339
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,880
others

340
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,720
in distress because of what we're doing

341
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:14,000
to the planet

342
00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:16,160
now some may find that a stretch some

343
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,440
may find that

344
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:19,920
as if it sounds too new-agey and yet

345
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,560
this has been reported consistently

346
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:24,639
concern for the biosphere concern for

347
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:26,160
animals as well as

348
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:28,720
human civilization and even concern for

349
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:34,150
now as i've mentioned before on this

350
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:35,680
podcast what

351
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:39,360
is bizarre intriguing but bewildering

352
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,480
about this topic

353
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:42,160
is that if you look into it with any

354
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:43,680
degree of

355
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:46,800
energy and consistency over time

356
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,360
looking at all the data one aspect of

357
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:51,519
the phenomenon inevitably leads you to

358
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:52,160
another

359
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,800
and it begins to stretch into larger

360
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,639
questions about the nature of reality

361
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:57,360
itself

362
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,800
the nature of what it means to be a

363
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,399
human being

364
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,399
this entire journey about understanding

365
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,040
this phenomenon is as much about who we

366
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:07,760
are as who they are i've said it before

367
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:08,160
and

368
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,600
again

369
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,920
now speaking of that one of the messages

370
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,680
shared by these others

371
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:17,760
is that our connection with them goes

372
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,079
beyond this lifetime

373
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:22,240
and it's not just that they tell us that

374
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,360
we hear from

375
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:25,360
experiencers that when they're on board

376
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,959
the ships or in their

377
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,480
altered state of consciousness where

378
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,320
they're in direct contact with these

379
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:32,880
others these non-human intelligences

380
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:36,639
they remember knowing these entities

381
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,959
both when they were young as children

382
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:40,959
and even before them

383
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:43,839
in between lifetimes sometimes and

384
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:46,639
sometimes even in previous lifetimes

385
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:49,040
and it gets even stranger yet because

386
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:50,800
some people remember

387
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,000
multiple lifetimes and not always

388
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,320
incarnating as human beings they

389
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,160
sometimes remember that they

390
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,079
in a previous lifetime may have been a

391
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,800
grave for instance

392
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,120
some even find that they have a hybrid

393
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:06,959
nature that even now

394
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:09,120
when they are in that modality when they

395
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,600
are on board the ship or in that altered

396
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:13,279
state of consciousness

397
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,399
they come into contact with a sense of

398
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:18,240
themselves or something comes online

399
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,399
that reminds them they have an identity

400
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:23,279
that is partly non-human some hybrids

401
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,399
only realize this

402
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:26,639
at least initially when they have these

403
00:14:29,829 --> 00:14:27,519
experiences

404
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:29,839
on board the craft or in this altered

405
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:36,230
now speaking of hybrids one of the

406
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:37,839
messages reported

407
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:40,399
to human beings by these others is that

408
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:42,800
there are indeed hybridization programs

409
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:43,519
going on

410
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,720
even vast hybridization programs

411
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,600
and indeed experiences reports seeing

412
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,120
life forms both

413
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:54,079
infants and toddlers and whatnot on

414
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,279
board these craft

415
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,680
that reportedly look like a cross

416
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,880
between a human being

417
00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:01,199
and something like a gray there's been a

418
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,040
wide variety of life forms

419
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:06,079
observed that only look partly human

420
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,480
there are also some entities that look

421
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:10,560
remarkably human that could pass as a

422
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:12,880
human being but nevertheless

423
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,079
have alien dna in them as well and it's

424
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,760
not just dna it's even

425
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:19,920
a kind of energetic signature that goes

426
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:21,279
beyond that it

427
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,639
shows up in a way we don't fully

428
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,320
understand yet

429
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:26,240
now in terms of why this hybridization

430
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:28,079
program is going on

431
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:30,639
one of the messages shared is that it's

432
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:31,519
to dilute

433
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:34,560
our more destructive elements that not

434
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,880
just

435
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,639
hybrids are being introduced into the

436
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:38,720
world but that many people

437
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:42,320
over time have had their dna manipulated

438
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,959
tweaked in some ways to try and lessen

439
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:46,399
our more destructive

440
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,279
aggressive tendencies because that sort

441
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:51,600
of lizard part of our brain that still

442
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:54,720
acts with fight or flight primarily is

443
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:56,639
really dangerous especially when we have

444
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,279
the kind of technology we have today

445
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:01,600
so there's been genetic tweaking going

446
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:03,759
on to try and diminish those

447
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,560
aspects of who we are as well as

448
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,000
hybridization programs

449
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:10,320
where beings that are a cross between

450
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:11,680
these species

451
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:14,560
and humans are introduced on our planet

452
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,600
and many of these

453
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:18,800
apparently walk amongst us right now

454
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:22,240
now as we've discussed before some see

455
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:23,519
this as a nefarious

456
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:26,000
strategy that it's a plan to take over

457
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,279
the world

458
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:29,360
i don't see it that way i fully

459
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,399
understand that we

460
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,800
are a self-destructive species that we

461
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,440
are on the precipice of self-destruction

462
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:37,680
more so than ever before in our history

463
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:40,240
because of the nature of our weapons

464
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:42,000
so this makes sense to me i can

465
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:43,839
understand it from a consciousness point

466
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:44,480
of view

467
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:47,279
and this is indeed what experiences are

468
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:47,759
told

469
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:51,600
by these others so i know that was a lot

470
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,399
to take in

471
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,079
but i just wanted to give us a sense of

472
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:55,680
the general messages that have been

473
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:56,240
shared

474
00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,920
the general tone of the messages overall

475
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:02,079
very consistently the message shared is

476
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,440
that they mean us well

477
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,360
they're here for our benefit as well as

478
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:07,039
the benefit of other species on the

479
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:07,919
planet

480
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,240
and the earth itself and they're here to

481
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:12,240
help us navigate a particularly

482
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:13,439
dangerous

483
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:16,559
stage in our history they also have told

484
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:17,600
us that they don't see

485
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,000
us as completely independent of them

486
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:22,959
that we indeed share a history with them

487
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,120
some experiencers have even learned that

488
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,199
there was a vast seating program

489
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:29,760
that happened billions maybe even

490
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:32,080
trillions of years ago

491
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:34,880
across the cosmos and that that partly

492
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,440
explains why the humanoid human looking

493
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,520
kind of entities are encountered so

494
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:44,070
now that we've covered the messages

495
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:45,679
shared by these others

496
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:47,280
let's turn to the second part of this

497
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:49,520
podcast where we discussed

498
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:51,760
the evolution of consciousness because

499
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:53,360
indeed there is evidence

500
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:55,679
that evolution happens not just on the

501
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:56,480
exterior

502
00:18:02,390 --> 00:17:59,919
in terms of physiology but that actual

503
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,400
interior evolution happens as well the

504
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:04,240
evolution of consciousness

505
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,520
for all sentient beings

506
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,160
now in a previous podcast episode titled

507
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:11,919
disclosure dilemma

508
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,960
i address the fact that how this notion

509
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:16,640
that non-human intelligences

510
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:20,000
are here already in our midst will be

511
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,520
handled very differently will be

512
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,039
received very differently

513
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,679
by different cultures around the world

514
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:27,679
because of the very fact that

515
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:31,039
those various cultures are operating at

516
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:32,960
a different level of consciousness that

517
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:34,960
there's a center of gravity that varies

518
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:37,120
across the planet

519
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:39,440
we can look at a center of gravity for

520
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:41,440
consciousness not just for an individual

521
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,000
but for an

522
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,960
entire culture and depending on the

523
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,559
level of consciousness both of an

524
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,360
individual

525
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:49,520
and a culture that will largely

526
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,720
determine

527
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,480
how this notion that non-human

528
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,080
intelligences are here

529
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,360
that aliens are here we discussed

530
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,000
something called spiral dynamics which

531
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,080
describes a predictable way

532
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:04,799
that both individuals and cultures

533
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:05,520
develop

534
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:11,270
and now i'd like us to look at the

535
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:12,960
evolution of consciousness

536
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,280
through a couple of different lenses

537
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:16,720
first off let's look at

538
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,679
value systems the earliest human beings

539
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,840
had very archaic values we're talking

540
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:23,600
about the most rudimentary forms of

541
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:24,400
humanity

542
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:27,840
and survival basically we evolved from

543
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:28,799
there to having

544
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:31,440
magical values here for instance we

545
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,080
would

546
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:34,080
use rituals and whatnot to try and

547
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:35,120
change

548
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:38,320
reality from there we evolved yet again

549
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:39,280
to what you could call

550
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:40,960
traditional values here's when the

551
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,360
monotheistic religions came online

552
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:45,840
and notions that there was a god in

553
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,640
heaven

554
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,400
that determined reality and that you

555
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:50,240
needed to respond to this god

556
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,440
in order to have favorable outcomes

557
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,360
as we've mentioned before many people

558
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:57,440
are still at this stage actually around

559
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,400
the world

560
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,320
that while there are more advanced forms

561
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:02,400
of for instance christianity and islam

562
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:03,679
and judaism

563
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,679
the majority of people who adopt one of

564
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:07,600
those religions and are practicing it

565
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,559
today

566
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:11,200
are practicing an earlier version of it

567
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:12,480
where there's a quite literal

568
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:14,480
understanding that there are three tiers

569
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:15,760
to reality

570
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:18,799
god and angels above human beings and

571
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:19,360
animals

572
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:22,159
on the earth and satan and demons below

573
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:22,480
and

574
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:25,360
often these others are mistaken either

575
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:25,840
for

576
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:29,200
angels or demons that's the traditional

577
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,320
value set

578
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:37,120
from there we move to rational modern

579
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:38,159
values

580
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:40,159
and here notions like the scientific

581
00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:41,760
method came online

582
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:43,240
the notion that we could use

583
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:45,200
experimentation to

584
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:48,159
find out about the running of reality

585
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:49,679
that we could understand it

586
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,559
and grow from that develop technologies

587
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:54,240
that could benefit all of humankind

588
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,600
because of this

589
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,559
this is a rational modern phase with

590
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,880
values that followed suit

591
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,200
also notions like the equality of all

592
00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,280
human beings regardless of

593
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,679
their background came online at this

594
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,520
stage

595
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,280
and then we have the adoption of

596
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:13,280
postmodern values which was

597
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:15,280
a reaction in many ways to the modern

598
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:16,400
values

599
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,559
here there was a notion that some of

600
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:20,880
those systems were actually demeaning

601
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:23,679
to humankind and that hierarchies were

602
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:24,720
developing

603
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:27,679
that belittled some people and favored

604
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:28,559
others

605
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,039
and there was a notion that these value

606
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,280
structures should be deconstructed

607
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:35,919
because they were actually dangerous and

608
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:41,830
at this post-modern stage there was also

609
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,200
a recognition that

610
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,960
some of the gains that came with

611
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:46,960
modernism in terms of the development of

612
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:48,159
technology and

613
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,799
industry had actually caused great

614
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:52,320
damage to the earth

615
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:53,919
and this birth for instance the

616
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,520
environmental movement

617
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:58,000
this came as a result of understanding

618
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:59,440
that while there were gains that came

619
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:00,559
with modernism

620
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:02,640
there were a lot of downsides too and

621
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:04,080
post-modern values

622
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,909
now what's interesting about each of

623
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,080
those different stages and the value

624
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:15,039
sets belonging to those stages is that

625
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:16,159
each one

626
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,840
thought it was right and the one

627
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,520
previous to it was wrong

628
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,120
and not just partially wrong but

629
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,880
completely wrong

630
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,520
each stage felt like it had completely

631
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:26,799
superseded

632
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,000
and made irrelevant and wanted to toss

633
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:31,840
into the dustbin of history

634
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:34,480
any and all previous stages this was the

635
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,679
assumption

636
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:38,159
and these are therefore all called first

637
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:39,200
tier stages

638
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:42,400
because of that next up we move into the

639
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:43,200
second tier

640
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,799
where there actually was a recognition

641
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:46,480
that each of these stages

642
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,760
in unique ways contributed to human

643
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:51,440
consciousness and needed to be

644
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,230
so for instance when we get into teal

645
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,000
and turquoise stages that we talked

646
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:03,200
about on a previous podcast episode

647
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:06,159
we have notions that while modernism did

648
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:09,120
indeed cause damage it also contributed

649
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:10,000
greatly to

650
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,039
human advancement and that while

651
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,080
post-modernism was correct in wanting to

652
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:19,039
take apart dominator hierarchies that

653
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,159
had formed

654
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:22,960
artificial hierarchies in a way that

655
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,600
there were

656
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:25,520
things called growth hierarchies that

657
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:26,799
appeared in nature that

658
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,039
actually were completely helpful and

659
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:31,679
part of the evolution of consciousness

660
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:35,440
we can call these holar keys where each

661
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,919
section becomes part of the next level

662
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:39,120
of development

663
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,080
so a whole becomes part of the next

664
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:44,320
level that's a hierarchy where it's

665
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:50,390
and i've discussed this before on

666
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,799
previous episodes of this podcast

667
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:55,440
it's about ever-expanding circles of

668
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:56,640
inclusion

669
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,559
and again just to make this point really

670
00:24:02,230 --> 00:23:59,760
clear

671
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:02,240
researchers like claire graves who began

672
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:03,919
spiral dynamics and others who have

673
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:05,919
taken up this cause since then

674
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:08,080
have consistently found that there are

675
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:09,600
predictable ways

676
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:11,840
that both individuals and entire

677
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,880
societies

678
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,840
evolve that they follow this predictable

679
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,039
trajectory

680
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:19,760
that leads towards ever increasing ever

681
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:20,960
expanding

682
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:24,080
circles of inclusion and even circles of

683
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,590
so if we were to name these different

684
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:31,679
evolutions of consciousness

685
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:35,679
we go from egocentric i me mine

686
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:39,760
to ethnocentric us we ours

687
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,120
to world-centric all human beings

688
00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,840
to planet-centric meaning all life on

689
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,320
earth not just human beings

690
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:51,360
solar centric everything and everyone

691
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:54,559
in our solar system galactocentric

692
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,279
everyone and everything in the milky way

693
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:58,400
and finally

694
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:01,679
cosmocentric and here some will use the

695
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:04,559
letter k because in this sense cosmos

696
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:05,679
means not just

697
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,880
the manifest reality physically but also

698
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:10,720
the unmanifest cosmos

699
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,760
so cosmocentric with a k this is the

700
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:16,159
predictable trajectory of consciousness

701
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:17,360
that we find

702
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,990
and when i say all sentient species what

703
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:25,120
i'm suggesting is

704
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:27,120
number one we've seen this demonstrated

705
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,400
time and time again

706
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,960
with all various human cultures around

707
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,679
the world

708
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:33,440
and it is still happening and being

709
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,440
evidenced today

710
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:37,919
but also this matches remarkably well

711
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,760
with what these others are saying in

712
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:41,200
terms of their evolution of

713
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:42,320
consciousness

714
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,640
and if indeed they are more superior

715
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:46,799
than us they are at a higher level

716
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,880
and their technology certainly suggests

717
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:50,320
that's the case

718
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,279
then they are sending messages to us

719
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,200
exactly as we would expect

720
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:58,080
based on a more advanced civilization

721
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:59,760
they are at a second tier level

722
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:02,240
or beyond and are communicating from

723
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,590
so i'm saying we can look at this from

724
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:09,360
two different angles

725
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,520
not only do we hear a consistent message

726
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:13,360
of peace cooperation

727
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:16,400
and even oneness from these others

728
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:18,799
many of them anyway especially the ones

729
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,000
showing signs of

730
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:22,000
extremely advanced intelligence and

731
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:23,760
technology

732
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,760
but based on our understanding of the

733
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:27,679
evolution of consciousness

734
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:30,799
as discussed in today's podcast

735
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:32,960
this is exactly the kind of behavior and

736
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:34,880
message we would predict

737
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,919
based on spiral dynamics this is

738
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:40,080
somewhat akin to a news reporter who is

739
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:42,080
able to establish the credibility of one

740
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:42,960
account

741
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:45,600
by finding a second unrelated source

742
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:47,440
that confirms the details

743
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:50,559
of the first account

744
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:53,279
so interestingly and tellingly when we

745
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,880
step back and look at what we talked

746
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:56,320
about today

747
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:57,919
i think this is telling us something

748
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:00,159
fundamental about reality

749
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:02,720
fundamental about the cosmos we live in

750
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:05,520
the multiverse we live in

751
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,240
not only do we see that humankind

752
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:10,320
follows a predictable trajectory

753
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:13,840
of greater levels of inclusion and

754
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:17,200
awareness and even identity over time

755
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:19,919
to the point where eventually one sees

756
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:20,640
oneself

757
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:23,760
as one with everything else that is

758
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,880
alive and sentient in the cosmos but

759
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:27,440
that these

760
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:29,600
others these aliens that are a

761
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,600
completely different species

762
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:33,840
with a different origin many of them

763
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,880
also show

764
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,440
signs of following that same track that

765
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:39,200
same trajectory

766
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,440
this tells us that at the heart of

767
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,640
reality

768
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:44,640
evolution happens not just

769
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:46,000
physiologically

770
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:50,000
but also on the interior of a being

771
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:51,679
and that it leads to these ever

772
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:53,360
increasing ever expanding

773
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:56,480
understandings of self and connectivity

774
00:28:04,310 --> 00:27:56,799
to

775
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,320
of another edition

776
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:07,200
of the point of convergence podcast as

777
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,000
always

778
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:10,320
let's keep this conversation going and

779
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,440
growing

780
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:13,200
please continue to spread the word about

781
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:15,520
this podcast on social media and

782
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,480
elsewhere

783
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:18,240
so others can join us in this

784
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:21,919
fascinating and essential conversation

785
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,159
but until next time friends from deep

786
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:26,080
within the blue ridge mountains of north